[img]smileys/smiley5.gif[/img]1990 integra cranks but won't start I've done diag on distritbuter and fuel line according to Haynes. but to no avail. replaced fuel filter spark plugs and wires. looking to swap out igniter . any suggestion.

 

hey my car had the same problem during the summer when it got warm. What caused my problem was electrical. I bought a new FUEL RELAY and had it professionally installed. The reason mine would just crank and never turn over is because the fuel relay allows fuel to go to the engine. This is quite common on early model hondas and acuras.

 

i had the same problem ,changed the main relay under the dashboard, its a very easy DIY, and the part was about 50$ at dealership. godd luck

 

hey guys here is how to fix the main relay, its cheaper than buying a new one and you will neverhave the same problem again[img]smileys/smiley16.gif[/img]






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<H2>How to solder and fix the Main Relay.</H2></TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>
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Introduction: The Honda or Acura turns over but won't start in hot weather is a symptom of a main relay going bad. This is the result of the poor solder application from the factory. As a consequence, raise areas on the joint indicate a "dry joint" which can lead to an open circuit. The dry, open circuit is the main cause of no start. This is partly caused by the buildup of heat on the terminal which expands, contracts and subjected to vibration. It is likely that a layer of hard oxide has built up inside the solder joint. The layer of hard oxide has to be removed by desoldering. Other than this, there are no known mechanical problem with the main relay. <!--This is caused by dirt in the joint which leads
in an unacceptably high resistance. When the terminals
expand, contract and vibrate, it is likely that a of hard oxide has built
up inside the joint. -->


</TD>
<TD width="24%"></TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>If you've suspected that the main relay is your problem, follow steps A thru C. Or if your car is over 8 years old, you may skip directly to step B.
<UL>
<LI>
Step A) Diagnose the problem by using your sense of sight, smell and sound. This can be done by following the main relay basic troubleshooting below, usually performed when the car won't start.
<LI>
Step B) Once confirmed that the main relay is dead, remove the main relay and desolder the weak joints and apply a fresh rosin core solder. The instruction on how to do this can be found below. Or if you like other options see Solutions.php
<LI>
Step C) Finally, install the main relay and test drive the car. The car should start and idle on even the hottest day. </LI>[/list]<H2></H2>


For this repair project you will need a main relay and a set of proper tools:
Where can I find the MainRelay?


<!--img border="0" src="http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4612/mitsubarelay5wn.jpg" width="84" height="66" alt="main relay" title="Honda Acura Main relay"-- border="0" border="0">Honda/Acura Acura Honda/Acura






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<TD width="78%">a 15-30 watt soldering iron (or 600F - 700F) <A title="May require a 40 watt or higher iron, if removing solder from every joint.">*</A></TD></TR>
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<TD width="100%">a Rosin core solder (Rosin is less corrosive) and</TD></TR>
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<TD width="78%">a solder wick (copper braid) (wicks/braids are bit tedious and usually wasteful on large jobs, but the wick is a good choice for this project.) or</TD></TR>
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<TD width="78%">a Desoldering pump(usually requires many attempts) or</TD></TR>
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<TD width="78%">a Desoldering iron (simple to use, How to use, see step 1.)</TD></TR></T></TABLE>



Start by carefully prying the main relay:


Clip-----&gt;Stick a flat small flat screw driver in the crack.






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<TD align=middle width="50%">Separation Steps:</TD>
<TD align=middle width="50%" colSpan=2>What to look for: </TD></TR>
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<TD align=middle width="25%"><A href="http://techauto.te.funpic.org/mainrelaydryjoint.php" target="_blank" target="_blank">
</A>Fig. 12 </TD> <TD width="25%" align="middle"></TD></TR></T></TABLE>

Note: Do not stick the screw driver too deep inside. You may damage the relay's mechanical or electrical parts.
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Fig. 4


The image above shows one good and several bad examples. More soldering examples (external link.)


Examples:

The amount of solder (before) is too little.&nbsp ; ; The joint (before) is a cold solder joint.
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CAUTION:</TD></TR>
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Try not to heat the joint too long with a 40 Watt or above soldering gun, because the copper traces on the circuit board may lift. </TD></TR></T></T></TABLE></DIV>
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Health warning: </TD></TR>
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Do not over expose your lungs or eyes to the fumes. Wash hands with soap and water after handling the PCB's and leads.</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE></DIV>






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Desolder the inadequate terminal (1) and the faulty terminal (2).<A href="http://techauto.te.funpic.org/mainrelaydryjoint.php" target="_blank">
</A>(same as fig. 12 above.)




Desolder using a pump Desolder using a wick <NO></NO>


<A name=desoldering></A>



Desoldering using a desoldering iron. �«



1.) Press and hold the air vacuum bulb. Apply the desoldering iron tip so that the terminal penetrates within its orifice.
2.) When the solder liquefies, start gently to rotate the desoldering tip so that the component�fs terminal can be eased away from the sides.
3.) Release the air vacuum bulb just long enough to suck the solder.



Note: If any solder remains are left on any terminal after attempting to desolder it, resolder it with fresh solder and repeat the desoldering process.


A clean removal should look like this:





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Heat the terminal and the copper trace with the iron tip while applying the rosin core solder to the terminal.









If you do have a joint which looks in need of rework don't be tempted to just reapply the iron. This is unlikely to succeed as the solder in place will have no flux in it, so the flow across the joint will be worse than when it was first made. Better to remove the solder, using a desoldering pump or copper braid, and make the joint again. The flux's job is to strip away all of the grease from the surfaces to be soldered, thus ensuring that the solder will flow properly.A concave should be formed with an angle of 40 and 70�‹ from the horizontal. <SUB>�õ </SUB>


Click here if you still have trouble creating a perfect joint.


A good solder job should look like this:





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Clean with steel wool, inspect for imperfections then use a conformal coating material. Conformal coating enhances performance, improves electrical stability as well as accidental shorts and thermal shock.Their ingredients include varnish, epoxy, parylene, polyurethane, silicone, acrylics, or lacquer. Coatings are applied in a liquid form; when dry, they exhibit characteristics that improve reliability. These characteristics are:
<UL>
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Heat conductivity to carry heat away from components
<LI>
Hardness and strength to support and protect components
<LI>
Electrical insulation to preventing accidental shorts
<LI>
Low moisture absorption
<LI>
Prevents oxidation * tip: If your Honda digital clock currently works, now is a good time to protect it with conformal coating.
<LI>
To remove the conformal coatings simply use acetone. </LI>[/list]







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<DIV class=borderound>
Install onto the vehicle in a lower, practical location<A title="Allow enough breathe room as the main relay will run hot.">*</A>, easily accessible in the future. Your work is done.
See all locations &gt;&gt;</DIV>
<H2></H2>

<H3>Further explanations:</H3>





What causes the main relay to fail?


Short answer: The term 'cold solder joint' best decribes it. This develop over time with thermal cycling on parts that are not properly fastened and are essentially being held in by the solder alone. They may flex the connection due to vibration or thermal expansion and contraction.


<!--b>Detailed answer:[/B] The relay coil winding and the relay itself can produce heat. This heat is
transferred to the two terminals per relay. As the expansion and
contraction occurs thru many cycles at varying rates, the terminal breaks the connection just
slightly which resulting in an unacceptably high resistance and introduces unwanted heat to the joint but shows no symptoms to the driver.
The solder on the joint weakens, a "dry"
joint (which is also known as the "donut" or "cold solder
joint&quot is formed.



As time passes, the
joint begins to show the no-start symptoms when the terminal begins to
expand beyond normal relative to the circuit board which breaks the
connection once the motor shuts off.




Once cooled the terminal contracts downward and temporarily completes the
circuit and the car can be started. Oxides or carbon would have form in the bad joint.
Once the car is started the electrical load keeps the joint from
separating. However, in severe cases the car can stall and won't start.






The vibration
can also introduce
the visible crack lines. The vibration comes from two sources. One from
the car's chassis and the other from the "click" of the relay. The solder joint from the factory wasn't
design as a mechanical fastener, but by following the steps above, your joint
will become a strong mechanical joint.
-->


What is the solution to this problem?


The dry solder joints could have been easily eliminated if the solder quality is consistent and a concave should be formed with an angle of 40 and 70�‹ from the horizontal. Four terminals and maybe more on the main relay are known to show signs of a cold solder joint.


Should I remove the old solder?


Yes. The old solder is of poor quality and damaged. Black areas on the joint indicate a "dry" joint. This is caused by dirt in the joint area and will result in an unacceptably high resistance. A soldered joint which is improperly made will be electrically noisy, unreliable and is likely to get worse in time. It could work initially and then cause the main relay to fail at a later date.


If it seems to take an unusually long time for the solder to spread, this is another sign of possible dirt and that the joint may potentially lead to a failure, usually in the form of stalling in traffic and won't start. It is hard to judge the quality of a solder based on the appearance of the joint because you cannot see how the joint had formed inside. So it is really a small price to pay to do it right the first time.


What happens if I just reheat or add additional solder to the joints?


The joint area will result in an unacceptably high resistance. Your symptom may return much earlier than a brand new main relay. The car may stall in traffic and won't start. See study.



My Honda does not like to start sometimes when it is hot out if I don't let the fuel pump prime and then try to start it? Can this be a main relay problem?


Yes. But this can also be a sign of loss in fuel pressure overnight. Usually, the bad solder joint will make the main relay "lazy" and won't start until after a second or so. There are two ways to distinguish these signs. The "check engine light" that goes off the moment the car starts and the when the key is turn to ON, the fuel pump doesn't whirl right away is a sign of a bad relay. If the car starts only when the ignition switch is first cycled on and off several times then the fuel pressure may have been lost. This is most often due to a bad fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, the fuel injector o-rings or the fuel injectors.



My check engine light is on and it won't start. Is this caused by the main relay?


Yes. If the ECU doesn't receive the power from the main relay, a diagnostic code (fuel injectors) will show up on the diagnostic indicator after retrieving the code. This is followed by the typical "no power to the fuel pump." A no start with a steady on "check engine" light could also mean a bad ECU power supply.





When I turn on the car the main relay starts clicking. I changed it out and still the same thing. What is causing it?


The main is getting low current. The result is a fast clicking relay. The current comes from the battery. The ECU then outputs the current on pin A7 on the ECU. The fix is to make sure the car battery is strong, tight and fully charged. Then make sure that the check engine light is not on and the ECU is properly grounded.











My 90-94 Accord doesn't shifts properly and the "S" (D4) light is blinking, can this caused by the main relay?


Yes. This can happen when the ignition is ON and the ECU/TCU power supply from the main relay drops out momentarily. The dropout in power can be preceded by a sounds like relay(s) clattering in the dash for a few seconds. The clattering sound may also be the sound of transmission interlock system misbehaving, which may indicate a bad TCU. Or the clattering is the main relay itself, which can cause the TCU to go into a limp mode to protect itself. This could cause the transmission to stay in the wrong gears or won't shift at all. Read more about this under transmission.php#mainrelay.


<!--p>Why is my main relay hot?



Heat rises to the top
where the circuit board sits. The joint can fail and won't show the usual visible
signs of the crack.
If your joints are properly soldered then the heat won't affect the newly soldered joints. However, if
you believe heat is the problem then you can mount the main relay upside down.
But a leaking roof can contaminate the relay.


</p-->


What can make the main relay hot.








When a fuel pump demands more current, heat would be generated as a result of increase resistance in the fuel relay contact points. In this case the relays will act as heat sink. This is a sign that the contact is worn. The picture above explains why. When a relay contact becomes corrupt, caused by arcing or other means electrons will converge in poorly conductible space, creating a high resistance and heating up the relay. The relay wounded coil can also generate heat. Replace the relay if you suspect that the main relay is running too hot. Since heat poses a risk of another solder joint failure.


Sometimes a fuel pump may run endlessly because the relay contacts have welded together. Another term for this is resistance welding.


Tip: A brand new main relay will most likely use the same poor quality solder/application. It's recommended that you observe the solder application quality before installing the main relay. A brand new main relay will have a practical lifespan of 8-10 years, unless they have been updated.














<A name=Troubleshoot3></A><A name=Troubleshoot></A>






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TROUBLESHOOTING THE MAIN RELAY</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>


You may read the FAQ for more basic troubleshooting, otherwise just follow this troubleshooting flow chart before performing the main relay bench test.
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<TD rowSpan=2>Car Won't Start</TD>
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<TD>Main relay troubleshooting for most Honda/Acura PGM-FI relay and harness</TD>
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<TD rowSpan=2>Turn the ignition switch to ON.</TD>
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<TD rowSpan=2>Does the check engine light go on then off?</TD>
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<TD>The ignition switch, ECU, fuses 1 2 -G- or main relay faulty.See flow chart below.</TD>
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<TD rowSpan=2>Is there a relay click when the check engine light goes off?</TD>
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<TD>Main relay is dead.& amp; nbsp;</TD>
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<TD rowSpan=2>Does the fuel pump whirl for 2 seconds when the check engine light is on?</TD>
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<TD>Fuel pump may be dead. Check the fuel pump.</TD>
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<TD rowSpan=2>Main relay is ok. See ignition.php for help.</TD>
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<TD rowSpan=2>It won't click, won't start and check engine light is on.</TD>
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<TD>Also, check wires below to body ground.</TD>
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